- Are you happy?
- Are you going to buy it?
- What vehicle will it replace if you buy it?
Oh the questions. These were on top of the "top two:" - when and how much.
On March 9, 2023, we had a chance to test-drive the brand new, unseen on the streets, INEOS Grenadier. Of course, these were pre-production vehicles, meaning lights on the dashboard and things we were not allowed to touch or fiddle with. The trucks weren't street-legal, lacking airbags or whatnot, so no hardtop tests were allowed.
In Southern California, INEOS organized the first test drives in very scenic Rowher Flat OHV recreation area, a few miles short of Palmdale off Sierra Highway (the original U.S.6). Kudos to them, many other venues in the 100-mile radius are buried under many feet of snow.
First, we had 3.5 hours to battle bumper-to-bumper traffic nearly along all of our 150-mile trek from San Diego. We were late by about 20 minutes, which came out handy: we skipped on the 20-minute introduction speech, and were handed the badges and allowed to jump in the cab of one of eight test mules Grenadiers and get rolling.
Impression 1: Gear shifter: a BMW signature joystick, right next to honest transfer case range lever. I hope the joystick is hardy enough to survive a fly-by of a tossed backpack or a 100-lb dog's paw.
Impression 2: Where are my instruments? Oh... in a current giant-flat-screen world, the instrument panel is in the center of the dashboard, instead of in front of the driver. All you have to look at besides the road is a collection of trouble or status lights in a small binnacle. Bizarre?
Considering that in my 380-thousand-mile Range Rover Classic the speedometer will not wake up from its coma unless given an angry finger flick, the tachometer is off by about 5%, and only the gas and engine temperature gauges are of any interest... and that I frequently use an 8-inch tablet in the same location as in a Grenadier as a navigation screen or instrument panel, it all makes sense.
Still, it is unconventional. On top of it, just like my 8" tablet, the information displayed on it fades with increase of the look angle - it really should be tuned to be better-seen from the driver seat.
Impression 3: Ergonomics. It will take me a while to get used to the Air Force-spec switches and buttons in the center console and on the roof. The short time behind the wheel only allowed me to remember where the Hill Descent Control button is (on the roof), so I could safely avoid it. For whatever it's worth, HDC in the Grenadier limits the speed to 3mph, much more palatable than early Discovery 2 HDC.
Impression 4: The test track chosen for the demo is not that adrenaline-heavy. It could have easily been driven in high range; in low range, the speeds of 12-18mph call for 2000-2200 rpm from the BMW 3-liter straight six, resulting in very twitchy gas pedal. A harder track with lower speeds would probably be better. This is all nitpicking, really.
Impression 5: Rear seats. There is just a little more space between the backs of the front seats and the bottoms of the rears than in a short wheelbase Discovery or Classic. A 6-foot person will fit, but just so. Not the shitter seats in an MD-80, but not Premium Economy, either. The bottoms and backs of the rear seats are pretty stiff, stiffer than in an LR4.
Impression 6: The truck is very, very solid. Nothing squeaks or rattles, and it confidently rolls over little rocks and dug-up hole in the dirt without any drama. Our tester came close to lifting a tire here and there, manifested by a sound of a short wheelspin; the memories of driving behind a Gelaendewagen suggest that the Grenadier's suspension is better at keeping the wheels planted.
Did I mention Gelaendewagen? Oh yes. The Gren is far more a G-wagen than it is a [classic] Defender 110 - in both composure, off-pavement habits, and interior space. There's no room for two rows of three seats on the sides of the Grenadier's cargo hold. This comes as a trade-off for very short overhangs and great approach and departure angles, at a 114-inch wheelbase.
The black interior, stiff and very supportive seats are also more Teutonic than British Leyland. Actually, I would prefer the seats from a 2016 110 to those in the Grenadier, but I could live with both - but I can't tell if I could spend 10 hours straight in either driver's seat as well as I do in the 1995 Range Rover Classic. Hopefully, time will tell.
Impression 7: Bottom's up.
After the test, we stopped for a while near the Grenadier perched at a steep ramp. Here are observations:
- Front suspension: four-link, with Panhard rod keeping the stuff from going sideways. All suspension and steering links appear very well built or overbuilt. The suspension links are longer than the JK Wrangler's but far shorter than the Range Rover Classic/Defender/Discovery radius arms - meaning that for the same amount of travel the bushings will be stressed a lot more. The bushings themselves are very close in size to those used on Land Rover radius arms mentioned - I would probably expect 100k-mile lifetime out of these. The tie rod and drag link both are in front of the axle, Jeep-style. Neither good nor bad. Both of those look on par with Ford Super Duty steering hardware.
- Driveline: both front and rear driveshafts use two proper CV joints. These should outlast the U-joints or Rotoflex donuts on the older Land Rovers. The driveshafts are made by Dana Spicer - should not be a problem to source the replacement parts.
- Swivels: it appears that Grenadier uses open knuckles, rather than fully enclosed ball swivels. The knuckles have a lot of steel webbing, however, which should protect the CV joint boots from any but the most-sneaky intrusions.
- Axles: The axles are Dana Spicer style, meaning centersection integrated with axle tubes, and stamped differential covers front and rear. It is neither good nor bad - just different from the third-member design employed by Land Rover, Toyota, and Ford, in the past. The axles are made in Italy by Carraro, which is just about beyond reproach.
Nothing protrudes at the bottom which may snag rocks or roots or branches - the design is very clean.
- Underside: there's a bash plate under the gas tank, and bolt holes for one under the transmission (but no plate). If it doesn't come with one from the factory, it will be a piece of cake to make out of 3/16" AL plate. There's an option for a bash plate extending from the bumper pretty much to the axle. The front axle's diff has two tapped holes in the bottom, just like Rover diffs - so you can fabricate and mount a front driveshaft protector.
- Wheels and tires: I did not like the design of the alloy wheels, but I never intended to order my Grenadier with them, anyway. Tires - some Bridgestone, some BFGoodrich All terrains - I'd rather have the latter than the former, but I don't care much for either.
- Rear doors: the 30%/70% split doors open to pretty much the entire perimeter of the rear cross-section, far wider than a Gelaendewagen's or an old Defender's. Just about the same as the upper/lower tailgate in a Range Rover Classic or LR3/4. The little door could be opened separately, allowing access to cargo compartment without having a pile of unrestrained cargo to spill or a dog to jump out into the mud. Very nifty.
- Body: 150kG load rating on the roof is stellar, considering the limited amount of cargo space. There are L-tracks everywhere, including the outside of the doors and rear quarter panels; fortunately, all are hidden behind some plastic covers. The U.S. of A. will get steel front bumpers, unlike pedestrian-obsessed Europe and the U.K. A winch tucks behind the steel bumper very nicely.
Finally, back to the questions asked earlier?
- yes, I am happy that I had a chance to test-drive a Grenadier. It was worth a long trip, and it was far more than your usual dealership round-the-block test drive.
- depends on price. I fully intend to order my Grenadier as cheaply as possible, but there are some things that just have to be there - stereo, sunroof, and leather seat covers not included. I really want it to happen, however.
- the last one's toughest of all. Lena is not ready to give up her LR4, I am not ready to give up my Classic. The Grenadier could replace either of them as a 4x4 family truckster, only losing to either of them in interior space - but so would a 4-door Wrangler, an L663 Defender 110, and a four-door Bronco.
Now, when and how much?
Back to the desert
INEOS people were really nice to us, and allowed another round behind the wheel of a Grenadier. So we took a morning trip to the desert - from San Diego to Superstition Mtn and back on one tank of gas (the first for me in a Land Rover).
By the time we stopped chatting with friendly bunch of driving instructors, there was a grand total of three people to enjoy the trucks - two of us included.
Impression 7: Washboard and soft sand.
The washboard was accompanied with quite a bit of booming noise in my truck - I suspect something was not fastened in the back, but it could just be the case. Driving along a soft sand berm with ~15 deg off-camber angle presented zero problems and zero drift.
Impression 8: Overlanding Extended camping utility.
I took another look at the rear cabin arrangement: the folded backs of rear seats don't make a flat
floor with cargo compartment, so if one wanted to travel with those, it offers a great reason to have
about 4" tall sliders in the cargo compartment. It can be locked really nicely to the L-tracks, and,
given the roof height, may be made neatly into a sleeping area for a tall person - Disco-style, with
front feet between the front seats.
If you take the rear seats out, the base will form the flat floor with the cargo compartment - so
it's all good in my book.
The wide part of the rear door has a little compartment housing some useless crap useful things
like safety triangle or vest or whatnot - it can be unbolted and a cooking table could be bolted on
without any hacking of the rear door, and that compartment is probably good for a hiker-style stove
and a couple of little fuel cans.
Finally, a meaningful update:
the U.S. prices will (may? should?) be announced on May 17, and people with reservations can pre-order
their trucks for four weeks after that. The vehicles will be built in Sept-Oct and delivered to the
customers before the end of the year. The price, of course, is a TS-SCI level secret, but they
(unfortunately) aim halfway between the four-door Bronco and Wrangler and a G-wagen. That's a big gap,
and it allows some wide latitude.
It's a boy!
The suspense came to a head in early December of 2023. I got a call from Mossy Ineos Grenadier, the San Diego Grenadier dealer, that I could just show up at the dealer and collect my vehicle - which I did next day at noon.
Mir and Trevor at Mossy Grenadier were already busy with other customers, but found time to show me my (!) Grenadier and start the paperwork. The hitch receiver is missing, but - most importantly - the diff lock switches are in place!
Addressing the "how much" issue: when I ordered my vehicle, I was given the total price for my configuration including axle diff locks and hitch receiver. The latter was removed (hopefully, temporarily) by the dealer due to some electrical/firmware configuration issues, but promised to return. The invoice price was the same, + $1600 destination fee + taxes and license. Ineos held to their word.
This is how the Grenadier looks next to a Land Rover LR4 (Discovery 4):
The Grenadier somehow looks larger, although the dimensions are very similar, except for the height. The 1995 Range Rover Classic LWB (LSE) is definitely smaller:
Vehicle | Length, in | Width, in | Height, in |
---|---|---|---|
Grenadier | 191 | 76 | 81 |
2010 LR4 | 190 | 75 | 74 |
1995 RRC LWB | 183 | 71.6 | 70.5 |
Now, after a decade, we are back up to three brands of vehicles:
A short summary of impressions after more than 200 highway/city miles:
This list will be continued and updated, so stay tuned.
4000 miles later
Well, we got ourselves a new people mover, haven't we? Winter is here, and off we are to Jackson, Wyoming. The Grenadier is loaded with stuff enough for five people (three of which punted on the road trip in an unknown vehicle and preferred a flight) and a large dog, who is also taking the road trip.
We have a chance to test the off-road mettle next morning - in Owens River Valley, near Big Pine, California.
Time to get dirty.
At some point, the number of Grenadiers around San Diego reached a critical mass, and Trevor Mossy decided to take people out for a "dealer run." It's been nearly quarter a century since we've attended such an event - then hosted by Pioneer Centres Land Rover - so it felt refreshing. The event was supposed to happen in Anza-Borrego Desert - which we consider our lovely backyard, despite being two hours away.
And boom, here we are, with 11 other Grenadiers and their happy owners. The favorite part of the meet-up was this - the first people we met were Larry and Carol Samons, who we knew from the earliest days of Land Rover Club of San Diego.
I enjoyed the view with my clean truck in the forefront - until John comes in with his, bearing the telltale signs of what's to come.
The truck lineup reveals a bit about INEOS' clientele. Five of the trucks are pitch black (some with heavy window tint), one - dark green, two or three - gray ("Magic Mushroom" in INEOS' vocabulary), one - light blue with white roof (what I always wanted!), one - darker blue, and one - almost British Racing Green, just darker.
The photos of a convoy of black Grenadiers definitely bring up some "Transporter" connotations.
Due to abundant rains last week, the sands of the desert were anything but dry. John took us into the badlands under Font's Point, where things quickly developed to the point of needing diff locks.
Which conveniently brings up the point of differential locks.
The base version of a Grenadier only has a center lock - just like the Discovery of old. You have to splurge for more upscale version, or remember to tick the front and rear diff locks option when you order one. I am sure glad I did. It was about a thousand-dollar option, which was ridiculously cheap.
But even if you have axle diff locks, you still need to RTFM to make them work. I thought I did, but not enough.
First, you need to lock the center diff - which only requires pulling up the collar on the transfer case shifter and moving the lever to the right. You have to be in Neutral, and stopped - maybe in a hundred thousand miles the Grenadier's transfer case will learn how to lock or range-change on the fly, but not in a brand new truck. But then there's a song and dance to be executed:
FWIW, the "Explosion" icon only means the automatic brake assist is disabled, so you are free to rear-end your buddy. The "YouTube" icon means camera-based forward something-assist functionality is disabled, too (which you always wanted, right?). The exclamation signs is probably warning you that you're about to fuck something up, so don't be surprised if it happens. The others are more or less self-explanatory.
Oh, by the way, the Traction Control. If it exists on the Grenadier, it is just as benign and inobtrusive as on a late 1990-s Range Rover Classic. Basically, there ain't any. Lock your diffs if in doubt.
Now, how badly do you need them?
During this day, we went up two hillclimbs - practically, three, - some of which took us over a checkerboard line of two-foot-deep holes dug up by more tire-endowed four-wheelers. I have driven my 1995 Range Rover Classic with only a rear TrueTrack through two of them, without a worry. Maybe it is the deeper sand this day, maybe the Grenadier from the factory has less suspension travel than a stock Classic, or maybe it was Bridgestone tires pumped up to 50 psi that I never bothered to air down, - but I wouldn't have been able to go up these hills without a diff lock.
To be honest, one or two Grenadiers in our group was able to make it without diff locks, after airing down to about 15 psi.
To be fair, the failure to complete the hillclimb could incur some penalty. No Toyotas have been harmed during this event, but they sure got reeeeally close.
Other assorted notes:
All in all, a gorgeous and very useful day. Shit like that needs to be experienced before you really go someplace crazy.
Nine Thousand Miles - desert and not
The Grenadier received its first oil change a little after 6000 miles on the clock, and the pace didn't slow down.
We racked up a quick trip from San Diego to Mammoth Lakes, with a detour through Death Valley on the way back. By now, we don't question highway capabilities or gas mileage or driver/passenger comfort. The truck received its own fridge, a Zarges K470 box cut down to 7" tall and filled with various maintenance and recovery tools, and its final version of the rear door fold-down table. The table has since been used extensively.
Surprisingly, the Grenadier proved itself rather capable in hub-deep wet packed snow - meaning it could move farther than I would be comfortable driving it without a winch.
It did very well on the infamous Death Valley washboard - with two people and moderate amount of stuff, the tires need to be aired down to about 20 psi.
One of the most important questions still remained - can I camp in it?
Nothing better to answer that than a multi-day trip to Death Valley with the old friends.
Just on the last trip, barely a year ago, it was the most-diverse group by vehicle choice: the only two close vehicles were short and long wheelbase
Range Rover Classics. Others - a '93 Defender 110, a Discovery 1, a Land Cruiser, a Tundra, a Gelaendewagen.
Now - the same Defender, same Tundra, and ... 5 Ineos Grenadiers.
One can wax lyrical about how immensely great a new Defender is, but these photos show an immediate ~$450k loss of revenue for Land Rover,
with a potential to triple this loss given the age of participants. And that's just one small group of friends.
The 1993 NAS Defender 110 looks right at home with a company of Grenadiers. Not sure it would be the same in a group of new Defender 110s.
The trucks saw very different terrain - deep sand and dust, rocky roads, steep mountain tracks, a couple of boulder fields, but nothing - not a single thing - merited a peek underside or a pop of the hood.
Back to the camping thing.
It brings up one of the biggest downers in a Grenadier's design: the backs of the rear seats, when folded, don't
form a flat floor - like they do in a Land Rover LR3/4. I have known it since the first test drive, so I hacked an otherwise-useless giant Zarges K470
aluminum crate to be about 7" tall, and filled it with stuff that would be otherwise scattered around - a tire pump, a recovery strap, a 4000-lb come-along,
tire repair tools, a cordless chainsaw, a cordless impact driver, whatnot. The lid of the box is about level with the folded seat back; it leaves another downer,
the seat bottom that needs to be unbolted and moved away to allow a 6-foot person to fit. I didn't unbolt it and used very generous amount
of memory-foam padding.
Bottom line: both me and Airedale Jules had two good nights of sleep. "Take the win," in the words of the POTUS #46.
The rear-door-mounted folding tables were very popular on the trip.
15-thousand mile update
Most of our Grenadier's life between 11k and 13k marks was a blur of a mindless commute, with predictable low gas mileage.
For whatever it's worth, the "true-world, paid-at-the-pump" gas mileage was 13.8244 mpg. That puts the Grenadier a hair behind the Land Rover LR4 and a hair ahead of Range Rover Classic with 390k miles, and a long way behind 15.5 mpg promised by Ineos (not that we cared a bit).
Service:Since the 9000-mile update, the Grenadier received its first services. The first - a little early (~11k miles compared to the factory recommendation of 12k) engine oil change, carried out by Mossy Ineos dealer in National City, at a cost around $300. This service should have included the axle differential oil change, but Mossy was flat out of 80W90 - so it was procured from Amazon and replaced on my driveway around 12300 miles, at a princely cost of around $50.
Not sure how the truck felt about it, but for us it was a welcome relief to take a trip to San Juan Mountains in Colorado.
The 14k mark happened exactly at the Red Mountain Pass between Silverton and Ouray. We had to pull over to the Ouray County Road 31 to have a cup of coffee near Yankee Girl Mine.
In the span of three days, the Grenadier carried us over Engineer Pass (12800'), Cinnamon Pass (12640'), Corkscrew Pass (12244'), and Hurricane Pass (12730'). That was all on the rocks, dirt, and snow.
I was concerned with the turning radius on tight bends of Mineral Creek trail - concerns completely unfounded. The Grenadier fit perfectly in every tight curve there was. On another note - where the old Range Rover Classic needed no traction aids other than center diff lock and a rear TrueTrac, the Grenadier needed both center and rear differentials locked (and front diff on one occasion). The suspension currently is definitely more tuned towards highway manners than off-pavement performance.
We got to see the magnificent fall colors in San Juan Mountains:
On the way home, the Grenadier had to dodge wayward burros on former Route 66 in Oatman, and hit 15 thousand miles 57 miles from home.
Once down on the desert floor, the air temperatures inched up - from mid-60s highs in Ouray to 108F in the middle of Mojave Desert. The air conditioning never complained and kept us refreshed.
I made a mistake of not fueling up on Arizona side of Needles (at $3.89/gallon), and it became a bit concerning in the desert. We were treated to an ice cream, a very ancient gas pump, and $6.99/gallon gas at Roy's Cafe and Gas stop on former U.S. 66.
What broke so far:
A Good Year
It seems to be appropriate to appropriate the movie title to this section: we just hit one-year milestone with the Grenadier, on a trip to Santa Barbara, close to 19500 miles on the odometer.
About two thousand miles earlier, around 17500 mark, I figured I could tackle an engine oil and filter change since it was just about 6k miles after the first service. A Mann HU 6022Z filter cartridge (~$15 on Amazon) and two five-liter jugs of Liqui Moly Top Tec 6600 0W20 engine oil (~$100 on Amazon) were ordered, and it took less than 20 minutes to carry out the deed. A 32-mm socket needed to remove the oil filter was already at hand in the drawer - I did spill some while removing the filter cartridge, but not too much. Not sure if I could do it better next time. The engine took 7 quarts of 0W20 to later show "OK" on both on- and off-road oil level checks.
Looking back to this year, we've traveled a considerable amount:
First trip - my son's wedding in Los Angeles: ~300 miles
Jackson, Wyoming (Dec 23): 2800 miles
Mammoth Lakes, CA (Feb 24): 1000 miles
Anza-Borrego Desert, CA (several between Jan and Nov 24): probably 800 miles total
Ouray, CO (Sep 24): 2500 miles
Hurricane, UT (Oct 24): 1000 miles
Sonoma, CA (Nov 24): 1200 miles
Santa Barbara, CA (Oct and Dec 24): 1000 miles
That leaves about ~9k miles for mindless commute - a good proportion for a city dweller!
Time for another gas mileage update, for both U.S. and the metric rest of the world:
The overall numbers come to 13.844 miles per U.S. gallon or 17.0345 liters/100km.
Now, about less of a goodness. It was never a secret for Jeep Wrangler and old-school Land Rover Defender owners that an upright windshield is vulnerable to wayward airborne rocks; the first arrived early on as a finger-sized piece of stucco that fell off a contractor's truck in San Diego. It shattered into a thousand pieces leaving no mark on the windshield, which lulled me into a false sense of security. Then, on my way back to pavement from Coral Pink Sand Dunes in Utah, a high-flying Chevy sent two more rocks into my windshield - one leaving a dimple and another - a half-dollar-sized star crack. Besides some effect to my mood at the moment, it derailed my return home - for a trip to AutoZone and their windshield crack repair kits. John Lee from Expedition Exchange suggested that it should be in every Grenadier's tool/spares kit - which I totally agree with. I used up the last kit procured in Hurricane, Utah, to repair another rock chip smack in the middle of my windshield in Sonoma, California. Since then, I've moved to better and more-advanced tools from Amazon; but it may just happen that I spring for XPEL windshield protector film in future.
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